***The Dark Knight Rises ending spoilers***Robin John Blake will probably become Nightwing. Indeed, The Dark Knight Rises for another impact character. The Alfred scene can be interpreted a number of different ways. We are leaning toward Bruce Wayne as Batman dying in the atomic explosion.
Auto pilot means nothing to validate that Batman survives. Bruce Wayne has a fear of death. He states his fear of dying in the pit prison. In the Bat plane, Batman shows a dim look (big decision), conveying that his fate is to save Gotham City. With 5 seconds remaining, Batman sacrifices his life for the greater of good. He overcomes his fear of death.
No way Batman confides in an auto pilot mechanism to put Gotham at risk. What if the plane crashes with the atomic bomb? Gotham City would turn to nuclear ash. Batman has good integrity to know that flying the atomic bomb outside the city is the safest measure to preserve Gotham. Bruce Wayne is shown in a dream rather than a real person in a cafe with Selina.
Nolan is extremely interested in dream movies. He stated that he wants to make another movie like Inception. The Alfred scene in the movie end is a dream sequence conveying that Bruce is happy. A person doesn't have to be alive to be happy. Reuniting them with family and or seeing them in a cafe as Alfred dreams can represent happiness.
No way Batman confides in an auto pilot mechanism to put Gotham at risk. What if the plane crashes with the atomic bomb? Gotham City would turn to nuclear ash. Batman has good integrity to know that flying the atomic bomb outside the city is the safest measure to preserve Gotham. Bruce Wayne is shown in a dream rather than a real person in a cafe with Selina.
Nolan is extremely interested in dream movies. He stated that he wants to make another movie like Inception. The Alfred scene in the movie end is a dream sequence conveying that Bruce is happy. A person doesn't have to be alive to be happy. Reuniting them with family and or seeing them in a cafe as Alfred dreams can represent happiness.
John Blake is going to become Nightwing. The Dark Knight Rises cliffhanger tells Robin John Blake's origin as the next upcoming Nightwing character. Good ending!
i dont think it was a dream, never happened before in the batman trilogy and selena kyle was seen with bruce, who alfred never confronted except for the opening scene.
ReplyDeleteIt is too predictable for Nolan to make his fans think the cafe scene is enough to suggest Bruce Wayne survives. Too random to think Bruce Wayne and Selina are in the exact cafe as in Alfred's wishes. It like randomness in astrophysics.
ReplyDeleteIn the Bat plane with about 5 seconds left, Batman is still flying the atomic bomb out to sea. Batman's facial expression in this bleak moment conveys the meaning of the moment.
There are too many risks involved with auto piloting the Bat plan with an atomic bomb dangling below. He is in the plan after clearing the path. Some say a shot of him is from the flying in the city. Batman is in the plane all the way up to the end.
it is like astronauts in Deep Impact. Like Maximus in Gladiator. These are sacrificial moments to demonstrate a hero in action. Selina using Clean Slate to erase her crimes and leave with Bruce to Europe is bad writing. We know Nolan a a far better writer than that to make people revisit the movie to use causality to connect the plot dots.
Nolan also mentioned last year he wanted to make another dream movie. He is a superstitious person that enjoys writing about sleeping dreams and greater meanings. He has no idea when he will get another opportunity to write another dream movie such as Inception. Here is his chance to insert dream sequence to throw a curveball at the viewers.
Thanks for the comment.
So a dream sequence is being edited in between the actual real-world closure for the rest of the main characters? And Alfred, Bruce Wayne's protector and moral compass, is left to live a life of misery after failing to save Bruce Wayne's life? That is you're theory. Really? Also, the pacing of the scene does not imply that Batman was in the Bat with five seconds left. The timing between the shot of the countdown and the last shot of Batman in the Bat is left vague enough to fool the audience into thinking he is dead until we realize that Alfred has fulfilled his promise to Bruce's parents. This wasn't Inception. Stop making it out to be. TDKR was about fulfilling destiny and moving on. There was a reason for the Clean Slate story arch.
ReplyDeleteBruce Wayne is well connected in every aspect of his life. From living his life as the Batman, to coming back from the "Hell on Earth" prison after overcoming the test of escaping it. He was even able to get the "Clean Slate" for Kyle when he was supposedly outcast from Gotham. Aside from being told by Alfred himself of how he imagined Bruce being happy, and seeing him at the specifically named town and cafe, I'm sure he's still powerful and well-connected enough in death to find out when Alfred would be vacationing in his favorite spot. Not a dream sequence at all. Why else would Nolan allude to the autopilot being repaired by Wayne months ago if not to show that Bruce was completely aware of exactly what he was doing. Nolan would not be the kind of guy who combines the concept brought to light with Inception and intermingle it with the final chapter of a well established story-line like the Dark Knight. He made inner thoughts very clear and distinguished with the Ra's al Ghul sequence by making him dissolve before Wayne's eyes, to show it was just a vision, Wayne's mind making a connection. I'm sure if it was Nolan's prerogative to do so he would have done the same with what Alfred was watching. The whole concept the movie revolved around was hope, and so it left the viewer with the hope that Bruce finally was able to let go of the Batman and leave Gotham in the care of another capable hero visa vis, Robin John Blake (who could turn out to be Nightwing b/c Robin just be too easy of a "cop" out, no pun intended), and find happiness.
ReplyDeleteAlthough this would be Nolan's final Batman film, I don't believe his intention was to kill off Wayne so no one else dared make another movie on this character ever again, but true to the way things play out in the comics it allowed Wayne to move on with his life after Batman and become a mentor to the next protector of Gotham.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Thanks for the comment. Good points!
DeleteWould Batman risk the fate of Gotham on an auto pilot? If Batman chooses to use autopilot, then he is depending on the plane to reach the destination.
Compare the autopilot to Bruce choosing to abandon fear in the pit without a rope. Examining autopilot and flying the plane, think about how a simple scene as the pit with rope and without rope apply to the autopilot and pilot. Batman channels the fear inside the plane to understanding his sacrifice.
These filmmakers connect every plot point. They foreshadow events. Using a rope to escape the pit is thus autopilot. No guarantee to accomplish the main goal on hope that a rope aids him. Nonetheless, without a rope demonstrates that he is putting 100% fate in himself to reach. If Bruce misses the target, he dies. If Batman depends on a remote or autopilot to reach target, he will fail Gotham. Only sure way is to pilot the Bat plane.
It is too predictable to just imply Bruce survived just because of an autopilot. People forget that there is a shot of him in the plane with 5 seconds left. Some will say the shot is not putting him in the plane at that exact moment. I doubt he bailed out before firing the missiles to clear a hole. A real hero will stay inside the plane. Making a sacrifice translates into a hero. It takes courage and no fear to make that sacrifice. Bruce allowed his fear of death to restrict his life. It goes back to losing his parents.
Batman guided that plane to the sea. The autopilot discovery is giving fans hope he survived. Then, you must contemplate whether he decides to use autopilot. Would Batman risk the city he loves on autopilot. Would if autopilot malfunctions? I doubt Batman/Bruce is selfish. He proves this with his generous will. Thanks.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete5 paragraphs, and it just about an auto pilot? Come on, I know you're a better writer than that, Mr. Astral, you're an incredible writer, but that is a very weak point as a foundation of your opinion.
ReplyDeleteHere are some strong point of Mr. Adam McQuarie, Mr. Alvaro O. Arias, and Mr. Alessandro Vitiello that you can't deny :
1. The connection of Alfred Pennyworth and Selina Kyle
"NEVER happened before in the batman trilogy and selena kyle was seen with bruce, who alfred NEVER CONFRONTED except for the opening scene."
2. Fragile End for Alfred
"So a dream sequence is being edited in between the actual real-world closure for the rest of the main characters? And Alfred, Bruce Wayne's protector and moral compass, is left to live a life of misery after FAILING TO SAVE Bruce Wayne's life?"
3. Clean Slate
"There was a reason for the Clean Slate story arch."
Enough said. They can't just babble around during the movie about this device (in many dialogues!). This held a major point in this movie.
"He was even able to get the 'Clean Slate' for Kyle when he was supposedly outcast from Gotham."
4. Don't Underestimate Bruce Wayne -- referring to
"Aside from being told by Alfred himself of how he imagined Bruce being happy, and seeing him at the specifically named town and cafe, I'm sure he's still powerful and well-connected enough in death to find out when Alfred would be vacationing in his favorite spot."
This can be done for sure! It's BATMAN!
5. THE MOST STRONG POINT
"Not a dream sequence at all. Why else would Nolan allude to the autopilot being repaired by Wayne months ago if not to show that Bruce was completely aware of exactly what he was doing. Nolan would not be the kind of guy who combines the concept brought to light with Inception and intermingle it with the final chapter of a well established story-line like the Dark Knight. He made inner thoughts very clear and distinguished with the Ra's al Ghul sequence by making him dissolve before Wayne's eyes, to show it was just a vision, Wayne's mind making a connection. I'm sure if it was Nolan's prerogative to do so he would have done the same with what Alfred was watching. The whole concept the movie revolved around was hope, and so it left the viewer with the hope that Bruce finally was able to let go of the Batman and leave Gotham in the care of another capable hero visa vis, Robin John Blake (who could turn out to be Nightwing b/c Robin just be too easy of a "cop" out, no pun intended), and find happiness."
Sorry for the long copy-paste.
My big appreciation for you, Mr. Astral, for this article.
Thank you!
@Chad,
DeleteThanks for the great analysis. Good points made. We're going to enter the Bat world to discuss opposing points.
1). The autopilot fix can give us hope. We see Batman flying the Bat plane seconds before the atomic blast. Common argument is that Batman is not in the plane, instead he is moving in another direction away from the bomb. He is controlling the plane via autopilot.
Does Batman trust an unmanned Bat plane enough to deposit the atomic bomb safely into the ocean? Heroes depend on fate to save people (i.e. Deep Impact, Armageddon, Gladiator, etc). In Intersection movie, the protagonist makes a big decision to change his mind (watch the ending with "note" and "phone call"). Bruce Wayne could change his mind to abandon autopilot.
2). Batman beats the pulp out of Bane. He wants to know who has the remote detonator. Batman knows that Bane wouldn't just give this detonator to just any person. At this moment in time, Batman does not show he has an alternative plan to disarm the bomb. He needs this detonator to save Gotham. Gordon is trying his best to delay the atomic bomb.
3). Batman and Selina watch a dying Miranda inform them the atomic bomb will blow. We see the core unit submerge underwater, which Fox has to escape. Batman knows he has to do to get rid of the atomic bomb. He reveals to Gordon his identity through a coat and hero passage.
4) Bruce Wayne decided to give Wayne Manor to the orphans after Blake visited him. This occurred several months before the atomic blast.
5). Alfred end scene. The colors are bright lit. Different tone than what is established in previous scenes. No need for Alfred to imagine any other woman. Dreams are not as they appear. We don’t choose to dream about people, instead our conscious and subconscious minds project images. Common argument is that Alfred would not dream about Selina. Dreams don’t work this way. Dream theme is hope and happiness. Alfred hopes that Bruce finds happiness. He is upset that Bruce dies. His dream imagery conveys Bruce’s happiness.
6) Bruce never planned to retire. He is forced into a major situation to save Gotham. We don’t see any flashbacks to show Bruce escaping the Bat plane. The end clues (autopilot, bat signal, pearls, bag, and café) give us hope that Bruce survives. Imagine is Usual Suspects or The Sixth Sense ended like this. We would get confused. Flashbacks are essential to fill voids, which most twist ending movies use to explain the plot. The twist is that another new character rises.
Based on the comments here, Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot. He gives his mother’s pearls to Selina. Selina and Bruce activate Clean Slate to move into retirement mode. They plan to visit an Italian café at the same exact time and place Alfred mentioned in the early second act. Whereas an atomic bomb is reported on the Gotham news, it is likely Bruce Wayne is identified as dead. Italians are intelligent people who spot Bruce Wayne in public. Batman ejects out of the plane and relies on autopilot to guide the atomic bomb out to sea. He is not in the Bat plan, thus making the switch with less than 2 minutes remaining on the bomb timer. Batman is sitting at a remote location controlling the Bat plane. Maybe Batman ejects out of the Bat plane, and then swims back several miles with an open flesh wound.
The Dark Knight Rises ending is cliché. There is little explanation beyond exposition. The primary scene that stands alone is John Blake’s rise.
Thanks again for the analysis. I appreciate your input. Check out the rest of the articles here, as well as on iSpoilers.com, TwistEndings.com, PlotSpoiler.com, MovieExplanations.com. Thanks.
Batman didn't overcame the fear of death. When he asked Bane to kill him, Bane said he wouldn't, as dying was something Bruce Wayne didn't fear: while he wasn't afraid of dying he couldn't make the jump.
ReplyDeleteThe pit medic also explained to him that the fear of dying is a basic instinct, one that would make him better, fight harder to avoid dying.
At his last climb, some bats surrounds him... it works as a metaphor: he embraced fear and by doing so, he gave his best to avoid death.
Actually Bruce is alive. If Nolan tried to make it anymore obvious (like a flashback shot of him ejecting) it would be insulting to the audience. We don't see batman in "The Bat" right up til the explosion, all we see is the seat behind him, which could be anywhere had he ejected. The expression on his face could easily be attributed to the fact that he is officially saying goodbye to Gotham forever. Alfred expressed that he wanted Bruce to survive and leave Gotham. When Batman decides to take the bomb out with The Bat Nolan makes a point by having batman lie and say there is no autopilot. He sees his way out right there and takes it. Yes, Batman would have risked relying on autopilot, only because he himself fixed it. In addition there is nothing, whatsoever random about Bruce and Selina being at the cafe. Alfred went into extensive detail about his fantasy in relation to that cafe and his habits of visiting it (even said what day of the week he went). More than enough information to allow Bruce to give closer to the man that raised him. Moreover, the scene where Alfred sees Bruce is within a montage of his allies getting very strong indicators that Bruce survived. Why bother show he lied when he said no autopilot? Who sent Blake the bag? Who repaired the Bat signal? Any other theory is clearly missing the whole point of the sequence. Bruce Wayne is alive. Oh, and it was never said that Bruce is world famous. I'm sure they are very intelligent in Italy but maybe you should recall in Batman Begins when Bruce is arrested and says "I'm no criminal" and the authority replies "Tell that to the guy who owns these" pointing at the Wayne Enterprises crate. I'm sure there are some billionaire who's name you may know but would not notice if you passed them in the street. Waynes high level of fame and recognition is confined to Gotham. It may not be the ending YOU want or even expect from Nolan but it's painfully obvious that Bruce Wayne is alive. No offense but I implore you to watch it again, you seemed to miss some things.
ReplyDeleteIn a nutshell, he goes from having no fear of death and therefore welcoming death as his way out of a life he is no longer happy with. To learning to fear death again, thus forcing his survival (climbing with no rope). At this point he no longer wants to die but still wants a way out. So at the first opportunity he sees, he takes as a way out, cheats death again and SURVIVES.
Jag, I totally agree with your comments. Let me highlight some points that are being constantly discussed:
Delete1. Autopilot: we are talking about Batman, he trusts the higher stakes on his equipment in a regular basis. Morover, who stated that the Bat's autopilot needs a remote control? It's a common place see Bat-veicles acting by themselves.
2. Cafe-scene: no dream, no coincidence: Bruce knows exactly where to find Alfred. Agree with previous comments about Bruce possible identification.: Bruce Wayne is not Paul MacCartney.
3. Phisical evidence: bat-signal fixed (Bruce letting Gordon know he is alive).
I have more but it's late. :)
Funny thing: in the end, unless Nolan tells us HIS version, there is no right or wrong interpretation, only each ones favorite.
Thanks for the article and all comments.
I usually do not drop a ton of comments, however i did some searching and wound up here
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